tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post4308864897157896654..comments2024-03-22T08:29:51.173-05:00Comments on UM & Global: William Payne: Probing Reasons for Mainline DeclineDavid W. Scotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17024204453848260271noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post-46895520579462513342016-04-29T13:21:46.200-05:002016-04-29T13:21:46.200-05:00You are quite right to point out that there is no ...You are quite right to point out that there is no necessary correlation between a theological commitment to traditional/orthodox Christianity and an equal commitment to justice across a wide range of issues. And I didn't speak to the situation in Africa because I don't it well enough to make a judgment. I didn't say anything about your personal commitments because I don't know them. Nor should you assume that my own theological commitments come from out of a liberal or progressive background. To the contrary. I have stood in solidarity with a deeply oppressed Muslim community. And I have baptized Muslim converts to Christianity. On the basis of doctrine I would identify with evangelicals and traditional orthodoxy. But at least here in Texas that would be to identify with a group whose political commitments, public speech, and social action I find loathsome and stands against everything that Christ said and did. I see nothing in them of social holiness. And I don't see much of real evangelism and sexual morality. They aren't doing the tough work of engaging those who are three generations from a Christian worldview. They don't even want to engage those serious challenges of differences in worldview. They are picking up the low hanging fruit of religious nostalgia among what is probably the last generation of cultural Christians. And far from standing for sexual morality they are fully engaged in affirming the American culture of serial polygamy. I agree with almost everything you have written, but not your valorization of UM traditionalists. They are no closer to being faithful to God's Reign in Christ than are progressives. They are simply engaged in a different kind of hypocrisy. Robert Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12733025264316575349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post-15111965847613000842016-04-29T11:37:22.495-05:002016-04-29T11:37:22.495-05:00(Part 4) I might add, we also include late term ab...(Part 4) I might add, we also include late term abortion, living together, divorce, elder crime, global economic inequities, nationalism, religious persecution, gender inequality, and a host of other issues that you did not mention on our list of justice issues. Discussions about justice have to have a global focus and can never be restricted to one context. Sensitizing students to the global context gives them a point of reference by which they can re-evaluate the unjust practices that flow from their contexts. Additionally, God and God's will as revealed in scripture are the foundation from which we discern kingdom justice, not the secular state or the will of humanistic society. For that reason, we are not committed to gay marriage and we do not advocate for it. This is a justice issue for us. <br />I could go on and talk about each of the issues that you listed. Liberals often assume that they are the only ones who care about justice. In truth, all disciples of Jesus care about God's reign and God's justice. However, we do not all share the same formulations for justice, especially ones that are derived from and reflect a prior commitment to a political platform. At this point, our advocacy for justice may diverge greatly from your advocacy because it is tied to our witness to the kingdom of God, a kingdom in which Jesus is Lord. <br />This is an undeniable fact. Those who have bought into the Westernized social justice gospel have mostly given up on a kingdom witness in which they invite people into God's reign through a commitment to Jesus Christ. Aligning with God in Christ and committing to God's reign is the first act of biblical justice. Taking on Christ and becoming like him as we interact with the larger social order is the second act. Love of God and of neighbor drives us in our social engagement. Commitment to the full witness of God can never be subordinated to a canon within a canon or a hermeneutic that distorts or minimizes the evangelistic mission of the church to make disciples. This includes social holiness. <br />God is just and commitment to Jesus Christ is a commitment to justice. We can never achieve the biblical vision of justice by circumventing Jesus or by supplanting his reign by a quest to construct a political utopia that is controlled by a secular state. This is the tower of Babel. Emphatically, we will never achieve the kingdom by means of secular politics. We must be clear that we are Jesus people and we are counter cultural. Our social engagement must flow from our spiritual commitments to Jesus and his reign, and be guided by God’s self-revelation in the Bible. This must include a strong commitment to evangelism and sexual morality.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141558221519018805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post-12800024076756629982016-04-29T11:37:09.222-05:002016-04-29T11:37:09.222-05:00(Part 3) In my last church, I modeled this inclusi...(Part 3) In my last church, I modeled this inclusive spirit by hiring two female associates, evangelizing a large host of African Americans, and planting a Hispanic ministry network. Our youth program became fully integrated and evangelistically potent. Ultimately, it grew into a youth church that took on the aura of a revival. Over a three year period, our Hispanic ministry outgrew our facilities and planted many other Hispanic outposts throughout the larger area. Hundreds of Hispanics were evangelized, loved, fed, equipped, and released in ministry. As a consequence, the church and the city were integrated since many of our Hispanics moved to the small rural city in order to be by the church. In short, we enjoyed a realized vision of the kingdom in which the reign of God was visibly celebrated in the church. In the process, the Anglo congregation went through its own conversation while enjoying the wonder of God's evangelistic out-pouring. <br />Also, I have close friends in the Islamic community. Not only do I take students to the mosques, I also work with the leaders. Often, they invite me to special events and want to go to dinner with me so we can discuss issues related to Jesus, the Trinity, textual criticism, and shared social concerns. At one point, I was invited to share the gospel in the largest mosque in America because I built community and trust with the leadership. I supported the Dearborn mosque when the crazies protested against them and wanted to burn Qurans. Yesterday, I posted in favor of Islamic cemeteries and freedom of Muslims to practice their faith in America. All my students are sensitized to this and other issues related to religious persecution in America and around the world. <br /><br />At the same time, in my role as a UM clergyperson and a UM professor of mission and evangelism, I am unashamed of my evangelistic commitment to the Muslim world. Because of my deep connections with Muslim communities, I have developed contextual approaches to Muslim evangelism that are quite effective. Of course, evangelism has to be a two-way street in order to have integrity within the context of mutuality. <br />Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141558221519018805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post-3510956233155328882016-04-29T11:36:06.621-05:002016-04-29T11:36:06.621-05:00(part 2) I do not speak for all American UM evange...(part 2) I do not speak for all American UM evangelicals, but I do speak for most. I speak against racism in class, in the church, and in the street. In many of my classes I am the only white person. I am embedded in the lives and ministries of my students. Often I have attended their churches. I also speak against models of contextual education that seek to separate African American students form other student populations. This is a new form of segregation that many academics are promoting in order to empower minorities.<br /> <br />We have a vision of the new humanity that God is creating, one in which we take off the old person and put on Christ. Our primary identity is in Christ. Our primary commitment is to God’s kingdom. As such, all those things that are associated with the old person are re-evaluated in light of the new reality. This includes race, gender, economic status, and all socially constructed walls that pit people against each other (Col 3).<br />Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141558221519018805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post-12010189899047293782016-04-29T11:35:10.841-05:002016-04-29T11:35:10.841-05:00(Part 1) Robert, thank you for reading my post and...(Part 1) Robert, thank you for reading my post and taking the time to respond to it. I note that you did not respond to the substance of what I posted but latched on to one sentence in my larger post. I do not want to minimize the larger message of my post. However, for the sake of conversation, I will attempt to respond to your issue. Before I launch into my response, I want to remind you that the African connection has fought against apartheid, ecological devastation, sex trafficking, jihadism, exploitation of children, theological imperialism, poverty, and a host of other worthy justice issues while remaining firmly attached to biblical morality. Personally, I share their commitment to each of the aforementioned items. In light of this, one should not assume that African UMs are opposed to justice merely because they oppose gay marriage, divorce, and issues related to sexual immorality. Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141558221519018805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4615496199721498323.post-77177964156650448692016-04-29T07:27:13.265-05:002016-04-29T07:27:13.265-05:00One could easily read this story as one of fidelit...One could easily read this story as one of fidelity to Christ in the face of American values that in the context of the post WWII era were clearly unfaithful to Christ. And of course numerical decline in a situation of counter-cultural witness isn't merely inevitable, it should be celebrated. Still, as the article points out, now those traditional values are in decline and it isn't clear what will constitute faithful witness going forward, or which of the two broad wings of the church will be able to formulate such a witness. I do take some exception with the statement that African and Traditional United Methodism have engaged in "dynamic social witness within their particular contexts." In my part of the country most of "Traditional United Methodism" has been completely silent and disengaged from the virulent attacks on the Muslim community and the US constitution, not to mention the ongoing problems of racism within not only police forces, but more broadly public politics, and the rise in gun violence. And while there are some notable evangelical voices on the issue of immigration and the well being and rights of migrants, "traditional UM" voices have been largely absent. Leave aside the contentious LGBTQ issue, where worldview differences make resolution impossible. Where have pastors who identify with UM's "traditional" values (Good News, Confessing Movement) spoken out in the face of Islamphobia and virulent hatred of immigrants? The answer is, (and I did a little search through the archives of Good New Magazine) they haven’t. Nor on immigration. Nor on gun violence. Nor on racism. Good News Magazine ran one puny article by a Christian of Muslim descent that never actually addressed the fact that only 10 miles from his home church violent armed Christians harassed Muslim worshippers on a regular basis. What is obvious is that for “traditional United Methodists” staying within their particular contexts means never challenging the islamophobia, anti-immigrant bigotry, and love of guns of their core constituency. I wouldn’t call this a “dynamic social witness.” I’d call it conformity to the basest instincts of your constituency so that you can continue to grow numerically.Robert Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12733025264316575349noreply@blogger.com